Hey there.  I’m pretty sure you should research what the primary axiom “libertarianism” is based on is: the non-aggression principle.

shoveitupyourpipe:

Just do a simple definition search on the word Libertarian and you will see.

That libertarianism is based on minimization of the State?  No.  Libertarianism is based on not initiating force against anyone, including their “property” (which we could argue about what is defined as property.  Personally I feel property encompasses simply tangible creations and trading such goods).

It is those who wish to MINIMIZE the role of the state, not eliminate it.

Libertarians are those who wish to minimize illegitimate force (the initiation of force), preferably to eliminate it.  The State is first and foremost founded on the confiscation of  property, both communal and private, to fund its existence, regardless of what the owners of said property wish to be done with it.  The State is, at its inception, a violation of liberty.  Furthermore, the State holds a monopoly on certain activities in society and prosecutes others, even if they voluntarily organize to provide such activities, for doing what the State says it is to do.  So, it’s a restriction on the liberty of association, regardless of whether or not the activity is mutually-beneficial.

Libertarians are a softer (and in my opinion more realistic and responsible) version of Anarchists.

No, libertarians are anarchists if they are to be principled in the Non-Aggression Principle, the axiomatic basis of libertarianism.

You clearly are having trouble differentiating between the two.

You clearly don’t know what libertarianism entails.

Libertarians understand that, in order to maximize freedom for all, you have to have some authority, you have to have some limitations, you have to have some necessary “evils” in order to secure the freedom for everyone.

You have to have some slavery in order to have some liberty?  You have to have some theft in order to have some philanthropy?  I’m pretty sure you’re equating two opposites as if they’re the same.

I’m a utilitarian.  I understand utilitarian arguments for the State.  And I understand the flaws therein.  Do you believe in Free Markets?  Explain to me how the State’s monopoly on sectors of human interaction is not in conflict with free-marketism.

What you advocate is NOT libertarianism. It is purely anarchism.

Libertarianism is anarchism.  Minarchism (that which you profess) is watered down libertarianism.

You advocate for a society with no authority, with no restrictions and limitations on what you can do.

No, I don’t believe any sane anarchist or libertarian advocates for such a society.  Authority exists.  Restrictions of actions exist.  And those are natural within society.  You do something to someone in a way that the community disagrees with, even in anarchism, and you face penalties (ranging from ostracism to expulsion, maybe even death depending on the views of the culture and agreements within the society). 

You are an anarchist. Please quit dragging Libertarians through the mud. There are gradient levels that you’re ignorantly disregarding. Please learn something and quit repeating the misinformation. 

Please, learn something and quit being misinformed.

And yes, from the anarchist position, Libertarians are still statists - even though the state they advocate for is minimal. This is obvious. This is a fact. Libertarians are NOT for the eradication of the state. So your own reply proved my point and shows your own flaw in your propaganda. Thank you.

No, libertarians are anarchists.  Minarchists are “statists” (I really dislike that pejorative though).  Libertarianism is for the eradication of the State.  Minarchism is more closely tied to Classical Liberalism than Libertarianism.  Though, their mothers are the same.  The primary distinction lies in the continuation of knowledge in Libertarianism (from private security agencies argued by Gustave de Molinari in the 19th century to denationalization of currency argued by F. A. Hayek and continued with by George Selgin).

Please, do some research before spouting. 

(via hob-nob)

"Emancipation from the bondage of the soil is no freedom for the tree."

— Rabindranath Tagore

"[T]he state is an independent, centralized socio-political organization for the regulation of social relations in a complex, stratified society living in a specific territory, and consisting of two basic strata, the rulers and the ruled, in this whose relations are characterized by political dominance of the former and tax obligations of the latter, legitimized by an at least partly shared ideology[.]"

— Henri Claessen, C/O Cal

(Source: )

"If old truths are to retain their hold on men’s minds, they must be restated in the language and concepts of successive generations. What at one time are their most effective expressions gradually become so worn with use that they cease to carry a definite meaning. The underlying ideas may be as valid as ever, but the words, even when they refer to problems that are still with us, no longer convey the same conviction; the arguments do not move in a context familiar to us; and they rarely give direct answers to the questions we are asking."

Friedrich von Hayek

Defining

freemarketliberal:

After seeing my dash light up with posts regarding how to label/define oneself, I figured I’ll give my two cents for the little it’s actually worth.

A brief summary of what you’re in for:

  • Hermenteutics and Etymology
  • Common-Understanding
  • Avoiding Misunderstandings

Read More

Oh, and also let me add that it is appropriate to try to educate others in the understandings another group may hold regarding the label they associate with, as to open their minds to the ability to actually listen to the views of those labeling themselves differently, to understand, as opposed to simply trying to figure out what their next objection is going to be, fueling the fire of destructive endless bickering. 

Defining

After seeing my dash light up with posts regarding how to label/define oneself, I figured I’ll give my two cents for the little it’s actually worth.

A brief summary of what you’re in for:

  • Hermenteutics and Etymology
  • Common-Understanding
  • Avoiding Misunderstandings

Read More

It’s a good word.  And frankly, I’m sick of people debating etymology for modern interpretations of words.  Rather, they should understand meaning is determined by the decoder, not the encoder.  So, just the simple—and obvious—statement that humans are hermeneuts, not etymologists, is key in comprehending how people function more as individual interpreters rather than historical interpreters.
Obviously words have socio-historical meanings.  But in the grand scheme of things, people interpret and develop understandings within their socio-cultural environment.
Oh, here’s the post we’re discussing.  I explained my understanding of 1) Anarchism, 2) Capitalism and 3) Corporatism.

It’s a good word.  And frankly, I’m sick of people debating etymology for modern interpretations of words.  Rather, they should understand meaning is determined by the decoder, not the encoder.  So, just the simple—and obvious—statement that humans are hermeneuts, not etymologists, is key in comprehending how people function more as individual interpreters rather than historical interpreters.

Obviously words have socio-historical meanings.  But in the grand scheme of things, people interpret and develop understandings within their socio-cultural environment.

Oh, here’s the post we’re discussing.  I explained my understanding of 1) Anarchism, 2) Capitalism and 3) Corporatism.

Affirmative Action

Affirmative Action could be an adequate and just means of making good past injustices, so long as the culprit is repaying the victim.  But at a certain point the culprit no longer exists;  and the descendants of the culprits are now the victims of ancestors’ sins, which they are not committing.  So, who’s the victim now, where is the injustice, against whom?

Read More

Rights

A few things do make complete sense to me:

  • It’s ultimately the individual’s job to govern itself

No matter all the bills passed by legislators, ultimately it’s the individual’s choice to submit to governance, thus providing the individual with the final say.  There are consequences for all actions (even the decision to not act);  and those consequences can be negative or positive.  By discerning the consequences of one’s actions in a situation, an individual is governing itself.  These effects of actions can be subtle, such as choosing not to eat a pint of ice cream a day to reduce the health problems associated with it, or they can be extreme, such as not taking 5,000 milligrams of Tylenol to rid oneself of a headache.  No matter if the action is “legal” or “illegal,” it is still ultimately the individual who chooses how to act.

  • There is a natural right to life

In the natural world there is a progression of life:  birth, growth, decay, death.  There are external forces that can cut this progression short.  However, if you observe the actions of life, you notice that as a whole, as well as individually, living things work to preserve and prolong this progression.  Adaptation and evolution are results of living things, as a whole, changing over time to preserve their existence.  As many external forces as there are in this world that we cannot help avoid, there are still other forces we can help avoid.  We can avoid taking the life of something else when it’s unnecessary for our preservation.  As nature acts to preserve itself, we too must act to preserve ourselves.  This act of preservation epitomizes why life is a natural right.  It is natural for a living thing to fight for its preservation.  We acknowledge that such is the case.  To take it to the next step and protect the lives of others, that aren’t needed for our preservation, is to preserve the natural right to life.

  • There is a natural right to liberty

As can be observed in nature with the right to life, we can observe the right to liberty.  Animals wish to do as they please.  They wish to be free.  If one were to go out and catch a squirrel, it would be noticed that the squirrel wishes not to be caught;  the squirrel will strive to avoid being caught;  the squirrel will protect itself from enslavement.  Naturally, we too fight not to be enslaved.  We object to being told what to do that we feel isn’t what we desire to do.  We object to our life to be enslaved, our actions to be enslaved and our belongings to be enslaved, unless we authorize (consent) to the restrictions.  But with consenting it’s no longer enslavement;  it’s an agreement that one voluntarily chooses to make.  To protect the natural right to liberty is to observe in nature that all things wish to be free from unjust, nonconsensual restrictions;  they wish it so much they try to their fullest perceivable abilities to protect and safeguard their freedom.

  • There is a natural right to property

The most basic forms of property can be viewed as protected by living things in nature.  A bird creates a nest to live in.  The bird protects its nest.  An ape makes a tool to obtain its food more easily.  The ape protects the tool from the plundering of others.  A lioness protects her cubs.  The things created by living things in nature are fought to be protected from others in nature.  This right is acknowledged by viewing property as something sacred to life and liberty.  Like life and liberty, property is attempted to be protected naturally by those possessing it.  The things we create through the liberty we possess to create them are sacred to us.  Whether we create them directly or we create the finances to obtain those things through barter with someone/something else does not matter.  The fact that we used our faculties for the means of achieving these things are what is important.  As in nature, we too protect our belongings and creations.  Thus, observing that the defense of these things in nature is observing the natural right to keep them.


Observing in nature the demands of nature for the preservation of its life, liberty and property, at times is not sufficient for some to view rights to some things as natural.  Instead they continue to view rights as unnatural.  I argue that by knowing a living thing is protecting its life, liberty and property it is a responsibility of the other living thing to respect the first’s desires to do as it wishes, so long as it does not infringe on the latter’s life, liberty and property.  In nature, one can observe that carnivores take the lives of their prey.  The reason I notice for this is that the carnivore wishes to preserve its life.  An animal may kill other animals for reasons that aren’t to consume;  but that’s because of the other animals not observing the first animal’s life, liberty or property.

To maintain a civil society, these must be observed:  The right to voluntarily choose, The right to life, The right to liberty, The right to property.  Without the first, one’s right to voluntarily choose whether or not to restrict or remove the latter rights, the individual cannot be free.

Loopholes: Freedoms yet to be restricted.

Don’t worry;  allow the preservation of something only capable of restricting freedom and some of those loopholes will be closed to your satisfaction.

But those of us with freedom-oriented minds will still find ways to protect our life, liberty and property with or without consent.

Tags: Definitions

bluebulletbill:

freemarketliberal:

“The problem with American conservatism is that it hates the left more than the state, loves the past more than liberty, feels a greater attachment to nationalism than to the idea of self-determination, believes brute force is the answer to all social problems, and thinks it is better to impose truth rather than risk losing one soul to heresy. It has never understood the idea of freedom as a self-ordering principle of society. It has never seen the state as the enemy of what conservatives purport to favor. It has always looked to presidential power as the saving grace of what is right and true about America.”

Lew Rockwell, The Great Conservative Hoax (via statehate)

I woke up with a terrible flu today, so I’m not quite up for writing yet. However, I will at some point do a line-by-line breakdown of this garbage. This is all based on stereotyping - it’s like judging modern Christians by the ancient followers’ bloody wars. As a last note for now: Someone doesn’t know the difference between neocons and conservatives.

Take your time.  I’ve spoken about it much here.  Be sure to do a line-by-line breakdown and refute that “garbage” as well.

(via bluebulletbill-deactivated20110)

"The problem with American conservatism is that it hates the left more than the state, loves the past more than liberty, feels a greater attachment to nationalism than to the idea of self-determination, believes brute force is the answer to all social problems, and thinks it is better to impose truth rather than risk losing one soul to heresy. It has never understood the idea of freedom as a self-ordering principle of society. It has never seen the state as the enemy of what conservatives purport to favor. It has always looked to presidential power as the saving grace of what is right and true about America."

— Lew Rockwell, The Great Conservative Hoax (via statehate)

(via missdaisyvo-deactivated20110517)

zachvaughn asked: "I don’t find most of the fruits of Modern American Conservatives the same as the fruits would be from Classical Liberalism. Also, Classical Liberalism and Libertarianism are MUCH different than New Dealism."

Just to clarify; the term conservative has been applied to many positions, which, in my opinion, could not be properly defined as conservative. Classical liberals have been called conservative, as have libertarians, and others who have nothing in common, but they're all referred to as conservative in the media, blogs, etc., etc. That's what I was trying to get it, but what's in my head doesn't always make it to the keyboard.

I see what you’re saying.  But, by meshing everything together the terms are blurred.  Classical Liberalism, whether said to be conservative by the media and blogs in general, is not conservative.  That’s something that bloggers need to take by the reins and express, since the mainstream media does not care to.

So, I urge people to define their terms when they use them, as to avoid misunderstandings and marginalizations.

Defining Conservatism #2:

[Modern] American conservatism is that it hates the left more than the state, loves the past more than liberty, feels a greater attachment to nationalism than to the idea of self-determination, believes brute force is the answer to all social problems, and thinks it is better to impose truth rather than risk losing one soul to heresy.

After defining my understanding of conservatism, a couple self-proclaimed conservatives added their definitions of conservatism. Then another blogger put his input:  “the conservative described here is a political unicorn.”  I don’t know whose definition he was referring to.  But, I believe it was given by Dan The Conservative, since he reblogged Dan’s post.

Before discussing Dan’s post though, I’d like to address some things I object to from Wandering Reveries post, since most of both definitions are represented in his post.

In my opinion, much of what we see defined as conservative today is not conservatism; it is classical liberalism, libertarianism, New Dealism which opposes liberal social policies, reactionism, or any number of things.

I don’t find most of the fruits of Modern American Conservatives the same as the fruits would be from Classical Liberalism.  Also, Classical Liberalism and Libertarianism are MUCH different than New Dealism.  I haven’t done much research into New Dealism.  But, by my current understanding of the economics of it, I’d say economically it’s not that similar to Modern American Conservatives, who are more for cutting some social programs in order to reallocate some funds to better pay off their debt to the rich.

Wandering Reveries also linked to a piece he wrote years ago, which he expressed isn’t how he currently views conservatism.  However, some of what was said is similar to the current understandings I hold about Modern American Conservatism.

The opening sentence really summarizes nicely the whole piece:

The conservative philosophy expresses a belief in individual responsibility and limited government, and that there is a symbiotic relationship between these two principles.

This statement reminds me of the words of a famous Classical Conservative, Federalist, John Adams: “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” The belief that the more self-governing an individual is, the less government is needed to govern him.  If someone is moral, less laws are needed for morality.  Government isn’t needed to intervene as often to instill morals in its subjects.

Wandering Reveries continues to express that sentiment by saying, “In the absence of individual responsibility, government might take on functions, or powers, to which it has no legitimate right, and thereby defeat the purpose of civil society.”  But, by adding that government has no legitimate right to take on those responsibilities, I’d argue that he’s teetering Classical Liberalism.  Conservatism, historically, has viewed the government as having a legitimate role in pushing for morality in its peoples.

Based on the fruits of many Modern American Conservatives in office, how they vote and what they say, it can be concluded that still, conservatives believe they have the power to push for morality in their subjects, to maintain a “harmonious balance between civil liberty and order,” as Wandering Reveries put it.  This brings me back to a part of Lew Rockwell’s definition, the one I expressed to view as the most accurate, “[Modern American conservatism] believes brute force is the answer to all social problems.”  We can debate day and night whether or not “all” is needed.  But, the results are in: force is viewed as the answer to social problems.  To quote another Classical Conservative-type, Federalist, George Washington: “Government is force.”

Then it was noted that the definition of Conservatism (Modern American Conservatism) given by Lew Rockwell is a “hasty generalization.”  Yes, it may be a generalization.  But is not a generalization acceptable in gaining the general idea of Modern American Conservatives in order to define them?  So, is the definition hasty?  It may be concise and quick to read; but it is accurate in generalizing.  Also, it may have been written without much thought; but it encompasses so much nonetheless.  So, with the definition possibly being “hasty” it still doesn’t marginalize its accuracy as a “generalization.”

Wandering Reveries also linked to a couple other well written pieces. The first, Ten Conservative Principles, mainly focuses on the mindset and thought-process of Conservatives, not on their votes.  To define something through principle rather than action is to skew what is actually happening.  You can speak of “should”s and “shouldn’t”s all day; but what really matters is what you do, not what you say you do.

The definition I used is given in observance of the actions of Modern American Conservatives—since, I can’t, of course, read the majority’s minds to give a generalization of how they think.

The second article linked is entitled The Essence of Conservatism.  I feel this article does a better job than the last one in defining conservatism for what it wishes the actions of the higher-ups would be.  But, it fails in a couple key parts: “In the affairs of nations, the American conservative feels that his country ought to set an example to the world, but ought not to try to remake the world in its image” and “But the true conservative does stoutly defend private property and a free economy.”

I realize me claiming that Modern American Conservatives (I’d say even Classical Conservatives) fail at defending private property and a free economy probably makes some wild hairs stick up.

Property:  Classical Conservatives were the ones who instituted the Central Banks, whether they were public or private.  By manipulating the money supply and the interest rates, an entity can (and will) destroy private property and a nation cannot have a truly free economy.  So, no, I’d say Conservatives, historically, have not been known for defending private property and a free economy.

Foreign Policy:  We police the world.  We have the LARGEST military spending in the world (defense being a small fraction).  These policies have only ever been expanded by Modern American Conservatives.  They don’t cut military spending.  They don’t mind their own businesses when dealing with other nations.  This statement is definitely describing a “political unicorn,” as Ed Valiant remarked.

The foreign policies of Modern American Conservatives really strike home with Lew Rockwell’s definition:  “[Modern American Conservatism] feels a greater attachment to nationalism than to the idea of self-determination.”

What bothers me most about The Essence of Conservatism is that it makes it seem like the Founding Fathers were conservatives.  And to illustrate, it only references Federalists.  Thomas Jefferson, Patrick Henry, Samuel Adams, Edmund Randolph, Richard Henry Lee, Thomas Paine and many more prominent, influential figures during the Revolution (War for Independence) were Classical Liberals.  The Federalists in America tended to be more Classical Conservative.

The main difference I see in Classical Liberalism and Classical Conservatism is with progress toward liberty.  Classical Conservatives believe in slow, gradual changes as stated in all links provided by Wandering Reveries.  Classical Liberals see something that’s wrong and try to right it as quickly as possible.  Classical Liberals are more keen to celebrating the abolition of oppressive states than Conservatives are.  Here’s another article by Lew Rockwell in observance of Modern American Conservatives’ actions and the overthrowing of tyrannical states.

None of the blogs addressed Lew Rockwell’s statement that “[Modern American Conservatives] thinks it is better to impose truth rather than risk losing one soul to heresy.”  However, before someone attempts to refute that, I urge them to look at what is currently happening with WikiLeaks and the conservatives in office calling for Julian Assange’s murder (some of which can be viewed and followed here).

Finally, to get to what Dan The Conservative had to say, the things which weren’t previously addressed.

a real conservative loathes the liberal agenda but doesn’t define himself in opposition to it.

Okay, that resonates with Lew Rockwell’s statement that “[Modern] American conservatism is that it hates the left more than the state.”

I’m in disagreement with his definition stating that Conservatives advocate free-market capitalism.  Conservatives, in general, do not advocate free-market capitalism.  Having a central bank does not equate to having a Free Market.

Conservatives aren’t skeptical about gay marriage because they’re hateful—they simply recognize that the traditional family has been a huge part of social stability and they don’t want to risk doing anything that might jeopardize that until all the data is there and collected.

To me, this, among many other statements I’ve read this morning, reveal that “[Modern American Conservatism] loves the past more than liberty.”

And finally:

Conservatives don’t support military spending because they like war—they support military spending because they like security and stability

With the amount of spending on the military industrial complex we should have a force-field surrounding our nation, protecting it from any potential threat.  But, we don’t.  Conservative military spending is not for defense mainly.  If it were, the defense spending wouldn’t be such a small fraction of the military spending.  Bush (I know, a neo-con—but still many consider a Modern American Conservative.  Also one that many conservatives currently holding office still vote to extend the policies of, since he was a Republican.) reminded us of his “conservative” views on war by stating, “I’m a war president.  I make decisions here in the Oval Office in foreign-policy matters with war on my mind.”

Just to restate the definition that Lew Rockwell gave, the one I feel currently best describes Modern American Conservatives:

[Modern] American conservatism is that it hates the left more than the state, loves the past more than liberty, feels a greater attachment to nationalism than to the idea of self-determination, believes brute force is the answer to all social problems, and thinks it is better to impose truth rather than risk losing one soul to heresy.

stfucorporatists:

Hey everyone,

Welcome to STFUCorporatists. This blog is dedicated to educating the general Tumblr population on Corporatism, also referred to as crony-Capitalism. By following, you’ll see the effects of Corporatism on society. By explaining Corporatism and revealing its unnecessary role, a…

Capitalism and corporatism are not the same thing.  I truly wish more people understood this.  Just like I wish more people understood liberalism, conservatism, modern liberalism, socialism, state-socialism, fascism, communism, et al.

If I changed the meaning of liberal to something else, and then after a couple generations of spreading the new definition shot the term down for its new definition, I wouldn’t be proving liberalism’s illegitimacy;  I’d be proving the new definition’s illegitimacy.  If someone catches me in this act, they can coin the new definition with a different term in order to make more evident the distinction between the two.

However, if I’m not caught in the act, and the masses believe that liberalism is now something that it wasn’t intended to be, the term can be destroyed, and hopefully the movement suppressed.

Likewise, capitalism has been re-defined.  Modern “capitalism” is not true “capitalism“—it’s corporatism.  Learn the difference.